Goyish music

"And I call to witness heaven and earth that when I was in the great city of sages and scholars Izmir, I saw among the illustrious sages those who were great singers in the art of music. At their head was the illustrious R. Avraham HCohen Arias. For the musical form for the High Holy Days, which requires great submissiveness which is called among them :chizzun", they used to go the the Cristian churches on their holy days,  behind the wall in order to learn the submissive tone which deeply moves the heart. From those melodies they arranged wondrous kaddishim and kedushot."

Israel Moseh Hazzan, Kerach shel Romi, Livorno 1876, quoted in R. Marc D. Angel, Foundatons of Sepahrdic spirituality, Jewish Lights 2006, p.107

Comment: Here is a review on the topic from Blogindem. R. Yehudah Henkin (Bnei Banim 3:35:10:

It is forbidden to use Non-Jewish songs -- even if they are not love songs or Hebrew folk songs -- as tunes for prayer if the congregation recognizes the songs and will think about the secular words during prayer time.

In Yechave Da'as II:5, Rav Ovadya Yosef responds to the question of whether its permissible to set kaddish/kedusha to the melodies of shirei agavim (romantic songs). He quotes the Sefer Chassidim (768) "Viyizaher mi sheyesh lo kol na'im shelo yizamer nigunim nochrim ki aveirah hi, velakach nivra kolo, leshabeach bor'o, velo l'aveira." Rav Yosef quotes Shu'T Rif, Rema, Radvaz, Kol Bo, and Orchos Chayim that this is only referring to the words, and not to the melody.

He points out that although the Ma'aseh Rokeach holds that it's assur and quotes Maharam Di Lunzano as supporting his position, the Chida has noted that Maharam Di Lunzano himself wrote words and set them to Arab melodies.

Rav Yosef rules that it is mutar to do this, and mentions many "Geonei Yisrael" who wrote such songs. They include the author of Shu"T Beit Dino Shel Shlomo, R' Avraham Antebi - the Yosheiv Ohalim, The Nochach Hashulchan, and others.

Rav Yosef then quotes the Sefer Chassidim (148) that when you're davening, you should choose "nigun hana'im vehamatok sheb'aynecha." He connects this to the Rambam in Hilchos Lulav who writes: "kol hamoneya atzmo misimchas mitzvah zos, ra'uy lipara mimenu, tachas asher lo avadita es Hashem Elokecha besimcha u'vetuv levav merov kol.

He also cites the Krach Shel Romi that in Eretz Yisrael (?, he says Izmir, which is Constantinople) the practice was to use Arab tunes, and in Turkey, the practice was to use Turkish melodies. the Kaf Hachaim didn't approve of the use of secular tunes, but those cited above disagree.

Rav Yosef then quotes R Eliyahu Chazzan (Shu"T Ta'alumos Halev): "kol halacha shehi rofefes biyadecha, tzey ur'ey ma hatzibur nohagim unehog ken."

In a footnote to this teshuvah, Rav Yosef adds that all things being equal, ideally it's preferable to use shirei kodesh. He mentions that the Arugos Habosem supports the Kaf Hachaim's position because while the chazzan is singing foreign nigunnim, the hamon am will be thinking of the words to the song instead of the tefilah. So, even though he doesn't hold its prohibited due to this "din", the Arugas Habosem would still be opposed becauses it interferes with kavanah.

The Tzitz Eliezer (Vol. 13:12) rules that it's forbidden to sing kaddish/kedusha to shirei agavim. He says its a toevah to put divrei kedusha in begadim tzo'im. He says it's a ma'aseh Satan to get people to sing tunes which bring a loss in the purity of one's kavana both knowingly and unknowingly.

He argues that the melody is the essence of the song (re'ach hashir) and many times conveys the meaning independently of the lyrics. He dismisses the argument some make that it won't affect them as "just words". And, he writes, it certainly causes the hamon am to have improper thoughts.

He explains his ruling: The Rif writes that a shat"z who is meranen b'shirei arev (it doesn't have to be during tefilah) is given a warning. If he doesn't stop, he is removed from his position.

he cites the Rema who rules like the Rif. There is a question as to whether the text of the Rema reads "Shirei Agavim" (romantic songs) or "Shirei Nochrim" (secular songs). The Magen Avraham reads "shirei nochrim." The MA quotes the Sefer Chassidim (238) re:teaching a priest and says the Rema is referring to tunes that are used for Avodah Zara.

The Tzitz Eliezer takes issue with this and says that this is not the Rema's reason. Rather, the Rema holds like the Rif that shirei agavim are always assur and the Sefer Chassidim is adding that shirei avodah zara are assur. He then quotes the Sefer Chassidim (768) re: one who has a good voice, and points out that it doesn't say anything about avodah zara there because 9he claims) it refers to shirei agavim.

He brings the Radvaz says that the Rif (when he writes shirei arev) means shirei agavim and since the Rema is based on the Rif... (this works better if you're gores "shirei agavim" in the Rema.)

He argues that even the Bach and Magen Avraham, who interpret the Rema as referring to shirei avodah zara, would agree that shirei agavim are assur. It's a kal vachomer. (This is Rav Waldenberg's interpretation of the Bach. The pashtus is otherwise.)

He brings the Ma'aseh Rokeach says it's assur and may also be a violation of u'vechukoseyhem lo seyleychu.

Ra Waldenberg then points out that although the Chida critiqued the Ma'aseh Rokeach (re: Maharam Lunzano) he didn't take issue with his psak.

He argues that the chachamim who sang nigunei nochrim didn't know the source so it didn't affect them. He writes that those who know where the melodies come from are affected by them.

He cites Krach Shel Romi (above) and vehemently disagrees.

He brings the Divrei Chayim, who writes about those who use shirei agavim for tefilah: "oy lahem lepsaim halalu areyley lev, eyn tevunah bahem."

The Tzitz Eliezer quotes Shu'T Ziknei Yehuda (R' Yehuda Aryeh of Modena) who praises professional quality singing by chazzanim and say repeating words during tefilah is permissible. He says to ignore him because he was a kofer and a gambler(To clarify, as I recall R. DeModena in his autobiography writing about this teshuvah, he allows nonJewish melodies and in also placing clocks in shul)

This concludes the summary of the Tzitz Eliezer's responsa.

In a related note, the Yosef Ometz (quoted in Minhag Yisroel Torah) says it's forbidden to use secular tunes for davening, and says we shouldn't try to be smart and say that they stole the tunes from us in the times of the Beis Hamikdash.

In Likutey Moharan I, 3:

A holy melody gives strength to the forces of holiness. But the music of the sitra achra, the other side, damages these forces and lengthens the exile. It makes people stumble and traps them like birds in a snare. Be very careful never to listen to this kind of music at all. The musicians and singers who produce it have no religious intentions whatsoever. On the contrary, they only want to make money or become famous. Listening to this kind of music can seriously weaken your devotion to G-d. But the melodies played by a truly religious, G-d-fearing musician can be very inspiring. They can strengthen your devotion immensely

Also see here and here and here

Finally, see Radak to Tehillim 47, s.v maskil.

Comments

[yitz..]

How can the Magen Avraham say that the Rama refers to songs of avodah zarah? wouldn't it be pshita that if the avodah was performed through songs, it is assur to sing those songs or else we are over avodah zarah?

[avakesh]

He refers to the melody alone. Of course, one cannot sing the idolatrous words.

What woudl he say about cahnging the song text to something Jewish? SInce some poskim permit melodoes only if the audience does not know where they come from, it would seem that melodies that are so identified with particular words that they remind others of these words would be forbidden according to everybody.

I assume here that song texts that are based on foreiggn culture or ideas, even if not specifically idolotrous, are forbidden as avizrayhu d'avodah zora. One can argue with that assumption.

[tadert]

I am extremelu fond of Bach and his music - http://file.sh/Bach+torrent.html . There is something divine and inexplicable in it!!!

[k]

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[pirates 4 trailer]

holy melody gives strength to the forces of holiness. But the music of the sitra achra, the other side, damages these forces and lengthens the exile. It makes people stumble and traps them like birds in a snare. Good Luck!

[date black women]

Rather actually! SInce some poskim permit melodoes only if the audience does not know where they come from, it would seem that melodies that are so identified with particular words that they remind others of these words would be forbidden according to everybody.

[Selena Gomez]

I assume here that song texts that are based on foreiggn culture or ideas, even if not specifically idolotrous, are forbidden as avizrayhu d'avodah zora. One can argue with that assumption.GooD luck!