Older fellow with glasses: I see that book in your taliis bag, called "Forgiveness". What is it about?
New Age Guy: It is about how you have to forgive all those people who hurt you?
Congregant: Why would you do it, if they dont ask?
New Age Guy: No, you forgive them for yourself, so you can be free. Not forgiving traps you in negativity.
New Age Guy: Yes. It holds you back, it gives them continued power over you. When you let go, you can move forward.
Glasses: Can't you move forward without them. You can forget them, for example. Forgiving someone because you want to detach from them is kind of selfish and not sincere- no?
New Age Guy: Forgiving is always noble. It's theatrical, a grand jesture of liberation. It's a better thing to do.
Glasses: And trusting that G-d is always just is a very private step. I get it. In my book, they have to ask. for fogiveness. They can't hold you back, if you understand that it is all from Hashem and they are just His messengers. Then we are honest, I am not using them for my ends and they gain true forgiveness - through understanding.
New Age Guy, unsure: But forgiving is better.
Glasses: Doesn't sound very Jewish, Sounds outright Christian. Forgiveness only comes if it is solicited. I KNOW that I cannot forgive someone unless he apologizes, at the very least, and I better know he means it. I can say that I forgive him but that is just words and I don't really mean it. I am just being noble in my own mind and self involved. I enjoy shoving my superiority in their faces and I gain not repair but revenge.
New Age Guy: How would you know that he means the apology? May he is just unburdening himself to not be trapped himself in negativity.
Glasses: If the apology is sincere. I know what is sincere; if it is complete, if he doesn't minimize the offense and does not blame others or the cicumstances. If he is willing to compensate - then I know it is not just words.
New Age Guy: What difference does it make what you call it.
Glasses: What you call it shapes your perception of what it is. Truth is always beter than self delusion.
New Age Guy, insisting: But if you don't forgive you will always remain trapped. It's for you, not for them.
Glasses: I seee what you mean. But, may be that is not called forgiveness, May be you you do it to move on but you need to call it something else, what it really is.
New Age Guy: What?
Glasses: Bitachon !